Interview

Phil Sanderson is one of those people who instantly makes others feel comfortable.  I worked with him for three months at The&Partnership and he went out of his way to make sure I settled in.  However, it was only after I left T&P that I discovered Phil is a very talented photographer!  He kindly agreed to let me interview him, so settle in and let’s dive into Phil’s story.

What’s your earliest memory of creativity?
When I was about 6/7 years old, I lived in a farmworker’s cottage with my family on a farm. My Dad was a graphic designer and a painter so drawing and creating was always an aspect of play at home, but the farmer (Jimmy) had a ‘Farmers Weekly’ magazine he passed onto me as he knew I liked to paint, it had a competition to create a ‘Farm Safety’ Poster for kids, the first prize was a 50cc dirtbike… I came up with a poster concept and idea that was called ‘Last Play Time’ which featured a kid falling off a stack of hay bales onto a sharp bit of farming equipment. (Jimmy the farmer was always getting me into trouble for building dens in his hay barn, so it was very present in my mind). Anyway, I won the competition and that was probably where my love of creativity sprang from, especially posters and the static image.

Tell me about your career and all the places you’ve put your creative skills to work.
I started life as a finished artworker and typesetter, working on Linotype and other photosetting equipment before the Apple Macs came in, which I then learned and ended up being a Mac artist for a good few years, I moved about a few typesetting houses and design companies before getting my first taste of advertising life at Barkers in Glasgow.

I then moved to an Agency in Edinburgh called Strathearn, where I ended up being the Studio Manager but I was lucky enough to have a Creative Director there (Andy Archer) and the senior writer (Dawn Kermani) who encouraged me to start working on creative ideas during pitches, and I really got the bug for trying to push into creative work, fast forward a couple of agencies and I ended up at Frame in Glasgow and given the opportunity to work as an Art Director / Writer team and the rest, as they say, is history. I loved creating ideas, especially poster work – there’s something about the purity of an idea that’s in good a poster, that great visual and line combination has always excited me the most, and I guess this is where my love of photography came from. I started working with a lot of the top photographers in Scotland and was always hungry to understand what they did – and, of course, any photographer is more than happy to talk about their profession and get nerdy on a shoot chatting lighting and techniques, so it was my informal training ground. My starting to get into photography really sprang out of being frustrated at the lack of budgets available for doing shoots, so started picking up a camera and experimenting with it myself with the intention of being able to use this skill set for my own art directed campaigns.

Why did you choose horses, hounds and humans in particular to capture?
Portrait work is where my heart’s at, capturing a moment of emotion or character or back story, whether it’s a human, horse or a hound they all present amazing creative opportunities. I don’t think I’ll ever get bored of it.

I fell in love really with horses, after my daughter had been going to riding lessons as a kid for a good few years. It eventually grew into her passion in life and I bought her a horse and, well, it’s not a part time hobby, let’s say that, so I’ve been around these magnificent animals daily now for years (mostly as a stable hand), and I can’t help but be inspired by them. They’re so powerful but beautifully gentle, it feels like you’re blessed when they accept your presence, it’s almost a spiritual experience I think, and I’m just fascinated by the grace and shape of their movement, I guess I’m obsessed with capturing some of that.

As for hounds, well there’s been a dog in my family ever since I was a small child, and that continued all throughout my adult life, they’re fantastic companions, and really good fun to photograph, you get everything from power and drama to pure outright comedy with them. They’re beautifully honest animals and express this so well when shooting them.

I guess though where you can go with human portraiture is entirely different – we’re a lot more complex in terms of being able to evoke so many different aspects of emotion or message and ideas, so the opportunities are endless but again it’s all about capturing that special emotion or narrative for me.

Any funny stories where the animal subjects didn’t cooperate?
Pups cause the most chaos and amusement on set I think. I shot a beautiful 9 month old French Mastiff recently called Bleu and he was so friendly he spent most of the shoot trying to jump on me and slobber the camera and he’s a big lad. I got flattened a good few times during our day together. But to be honest I loved it as much as he did.

Any tricks you’d be happy to share for getting animals’ attention?
Dogs are easy: treats and their favourite squeaky toy. I’ll use the toy or treat held directly over the lens by the owner while I’m shooting, or sometimes I’ll make a high-pitched squeak with my lips to catch them off guard which usually elicits a great response from them. But it does help if they’ve had some basic training and can sit on command. It really becomes a challenge when they’re not willing to sit in the area you’ve lit for, so you have to be prepared to play it by ear and work around how they behave. I had two beautiful rescue greyhounds in recently, and they didn’t know how to do anything like sitting to command – so all my pre-planned shots went out the window and I had to modify the poses as to how they were willing to behave, which generally was laying down where they’d been directed to stand.

Horses are much more difficult – they’re prey animals and have a very high instinct for flight or fight, and you don’t want to be on the wrong end of a panicked horse. I’ve had a horse bolt in fear just at the sound of my camera shutter once when shooting in a field… so I usually spend a good 10-30 minutes with each horse allowing them to gradually get used to the strobe lights and me – I also get the owner to bring a friend, so the owner can manage the horse who’s usually held on a lead rope with halter, and their friend has a box of treats that can be shaken to entice the horse to look in the direction I want it to pose. It’s also important to give the horse a pathway through your lighting set up to escape, so if they do panic, they can have a clear path around your lights. I usually shoot in indoor schools, so I make use of the jump stands (wings) to surround my lights creating a more visual barrier, the horses are used to avoiding these, so it helps keep the horses safe (as well as my precious strobes).

My dream client with horses though is someone who practices natural horsemanship and liberty work, these clients and their horses can provide so much more in terms of allowing a horse to move naturally and be guided without a halter and rope, and generally I’ve found the horses to be so much more relaxed when they have that freedom of movement.

Your use of lighting is very striking – can you talk me through how you set your equipment up and what you look for in terms of good lighting?
Lighting is the most exciting thing about photography for me – I see it as my opportunity to ‘paint’, which is why I love strobes so much as I can control the light so much more this way. I’m really interested in the interplay of light and dark, so I’ve always been drawn to Rembrandt (Chiaroscuro) or low-key lighting, I also love experimenting with coloured gel lighting.

I always have in my mind that I’m at least attempting to shoot and light like an old masters painting… whether I succeed of course is an entirely different thing but that’s my ambition.

I was lucky enough to go to a talk by my all-time photographic hero, Nadav Kander, and he talked passionately about the importance of what’s not seen in an image being just as important as what is seen, and this struck a chord with me, and I guess this is why I’m drawn to more dramatic lighting set ups. It’s also just beautiful, I’ve never really seen the appeal of super bright photography, but that’s more down to my own personal tastes and aesthetic.

Technically wise, every shot is so different but to sum it up for me I’m always looking for a strong directional light of some description just making sure that it’s balanced well with additional fill lights and reflectors, I like to shoot tethered to a laptop wherever I can and build up the lights slowly on set so having the laptop available is a great way of doing this.

What would your ideal photoshoot look like?
I think every shoot I do is my ideal shoot, from the simplest of hound portraits to more complex shoots for humans and horses, they’re all amazing experiences.
I love something director Jean-Paul Jeunet said, when asked about why his ‘director’s cut’ for Alien Resurrection was the same as the cinema release, which was that every movie he makes is his director’s cut, and that’s how I approach my shoots, I love photography too much to either take on a project I’m not passionate about or that I think I can’t do exactly the way I want to.

But, I do have a burning ambition to pull all three aspects of horses, hounds and humans into one image which I’ve not done yet, a little bit like a modern version of an old masters painting of a lord or lady on their horse surrounded by their hounds. (Takers anyone?)

Do you mainly work inside your own studio? Tell me a little about that.
I work in studio mostly for human shoots, but when it comes to horses, you’ll find me at the stables or an indoor school – with hounds it’s really flexible, and I can travel and set up a rig in a living room (my own included) or out about on a favourite walk.

I think I love the control that a studio affords you though, so much more space to use lights and build an interesting set. But I also use specialist locations, most recently I hired a theatre space to shoot a set for an actress, so we could use the stage and amphitheatre to tell her story, so basically, I’ll shoot anywhere.

What are your other hobbies?

When I’m not taking pictures, I’m at the stables with Ellie or walking my dog, Nala…. but I tend to obsess and get hyper-focused, so photography is an all-consuming passion, any spare time is taken up learning new techniques or practicing.

How can people commission you?
You can contact me directly on my website or find me under @philyboy on Instagram (if you don’t mind lots of dog walking and stable life pics too).

My first conversation with Simon Martin, Head of Copy at Wunderman Thompson, went like this:

Simon: How are you with sarcastic feedback?

Me: Fine with me.

From that moment onwards, Simon Martin, Head of Copy at Wunderman Thompson, proceeded to return my copy with sarcastic feedback – and I loved it.  In between the hilarious observations and brutal reposts, there were nuggets of information I could learn from.  Plus he was pretty funny.

Simon will be calling time on his incredible career at the end of this month, much to my great distress.  However, this seemed like the perfect opportunity to interview Simon about the highlights (and low moments) of his career.

How did your affinity for copywriting first make itself known?  Were you a child prodigy?

I didn’t know what a copywriter was for a long time. Certainly not at school or college.  I was congenitally lazy, and when I heard about copywriting, it sounded like a great job, but a lot of work to get a book of ideas together.  So being arrogant and overconfident, I thought I could get into it by the side door – work in marketing and then dazzle everyone with how good I was at writing.  Which didn’t really happen – although they all said I had neat handwriting.

I then realised I had to self-brief and work and work and work on my writing.  And while I could have used the contacts I knew in the industry, I was determined to do it myself.  I applied for loads of jobs through Campaign and The Guardian, got down to the final few (from thousands) for some jobs, and finally got my first job – with not a huge amount in my portfolio, but a huge amount of enthusiasm (which wore off fairly soon).


(Image above: Simon’s work for Peugeot.)

Tell me about your career and all the places you’ve put your creative skills to work.

I’ve written a lot of words, in a lot of different media, for a lot of clients at a lot of agencies. It’s only in recent years that I’ve done nothing but writing (and overseeing).

I’ve done TV, radio, press, digital, outdoor, experiential and won shelf-loads of awards of various colours for it.  I’ve worked with some of the best creative directors in the business – and alongside some of the cleverest, funniest, smartest people too.

Here’s a list. Probably not complete:

• Small above the line agency focussing on travel, tourism, booze and new tech. 
• Used to be massive in loyalty marketing. Worked on everything from financial services to booze and British Airways (until 9/11)
• I can barely remember it – but know I worked on Yellow Pages, Baileys and Microsoft.
• EHS Brann. It had been Evans Hunt Scott. And is now Havas Helia or something. It was excellent. The Economist is a dream client for a writer.
• Kitcatt Nohr Alexander Shaw. In the early noughties, there were three agencies where every creative wanted to work. Partners Andrews Aldridge, Archibald Ingall Stretton and Kitcatt Nohr. I was lucky enough to work at one of them, and had friends in the others. I remember working on Lexus, Britannia, Waitrose, John Lewis, WWF.
• Twice. Now part of VCCP. Worked mostly on Sky and Sainsbury’s.
• Kitcatt Nohr again, but it was part of Digitas and was very different. Great people, some great work. Dog’s Trust, Macmillan, Sue Ryder, Sky (again), booze clients.
• Also spent a big chunk of time freelancing at some excellent agencies.

I was always more of a conceptual writer and the writing bits were secondary.  But that way led me to some dark times.  I struggled with anxiety.  And for the only time in my career, I started losing confidence.

I’d been damaged by a shift in the way creative work is done and critiqued – a reliance on rigidly sticking to briefs and the pecking to death of ideas by everyone from account exec, account manager, account director, planners, senior planners, junior clients, planning directors, senior clients, legal, the MD and his wife, a bloke on the street.  Everyone has an opinion worth listening to, so goes the claim.  I debated it until it sapped me of strength.  It’s creative by committee where everything ends up looking, sounding and reading the same.

But the worst thing was that, after all these meetings and sessions and feedback and a diluted creative idea being presented, it doesn’t stand out. It doesn’t win the new business pitch. Or win an award. And it’s at that point that it all becomes my fault (in the eyes of the board) – not the hundreds of other people making mini-decisions that they think their boss will like. They all disappear or collectively swing the finger of blame towards the creatives.

This sounds like exaggeration, but I worked in one place where the planning director would openly blame the creatives for lack of pitch success, saying it all went well until we shared the work. The same planning director who hammered us down and make it more like what they had in mind.

What brought you to London in 1993? 

I’d worked in magazine publishing, pubs and record stores in the north west. I was paid about £6k a year. That sounds terrible now, and it sounded bad back then too. I finally got a job as a marketing executive in London (well, I thought it was London but it was on an industrial estate outside Croydon). I saw it as my springboard into the big leagues. My brother – five years older than me – was a young creative director and agency life looked like fun. So I focussed on getting that sort of job instead.

What are some of the standout moments of the last 30 years?    

The industry was brilliant to and for me in the early days. We were all fairly young and either single or going out with people from the industry. Booze was a massive part of everything – and we often worked late because we wanted to, or we’d been in the pub all day and had to catch up. But it was always our own choices. When it started to become what management expected, then it loses a bit of the lustre. There are still creatives now who bemoan the fact that no-one works late anymore. To them, it’s a badge of honour. Maybe they wear the badge alongside the ‘I have 3 ex-wives/husbands’ badges.

We loved the industry and became defined by it. So when the job starts going a bit bad, our mental health can and will suffer too. Creatives pour their ‘self’ into each part of their work, so when the work gets picked apart, word by word, then bit by bit, so can the confidence.

What’s the funniest thing that ever happened to you in your career?

This is a list that could go on and on. Work at one point felt like it was all geared up around a new practical joke.

The most I laughed was at Carlson. There was a department of about 12 teams, all with our own offices. It was mayhem. The work was excellent, but the laughter was even better. We all got on really well and helped each other out. There was no competition between teams, just respect. We used to ask for help, give help, do stuff together.  I much prefer it to the ‘everyone’s in it for themselves’ attitude that I see nearly everywhere else – it’s all about me and my career and not the idea and not the department. Even now, I will happily give ideas to people and don’t need to be recognised for doing it. I’m happy if it helps them do good work. 

When did you start with Wunderman Thompson?  And what was your first role there? 

After I got to become a CD and an acting ECD in a couple of agencies, I realised that being a CD or ECD wasn’t for me. While I still wanted to be a creative, I didn’t want the trappings of a CD position (seriously, why would anyone who loves being creative want to sit in meetings about utilisation rates, billings and endless HR issues? You get good at what you do and then end up doing something else entirely. I suppose that’s the same in most jobs).

So I started looking for writer roles. I took off references to being a CD from my CV and never told anyone and sacrificed the salary expectations of that role. I got a freelance writing role at Wunderman before the merger with JWT working on BT. There were a couple of young CDs there who I worked into who were excellent and they liked my writing so they wanted to hire me. I became Head of Copy on BT and the CDs knew I didn’t want to do any conceptual stuff but they could trust me to get the copy into shape every time.

There’s no more a fitting place for me to call time on my career than at WT. Lester Wunderman invented direct marketing and a lot of my career has been about DM. I love a bangtail envelope.

Simon, thank you for all your help, witticisms and sarcasm.  You’ve taught me so much, and, though we’ll never see eye to eye on exclamation marks, I’ll never be able to use one without a vision of you peering over my shoulder saying something rude about them.  We’ll all miss you tremendously.  

I’m occasionally asked if I know any amazing designers.  Well, the answer is yes!  Say hello to Jess, the amazing designer behind my website, portfolio and CV.  Jess very kindly agreed to answer a ton of questions about what she does.  Take it away, Jess!

Tell us a little about you.
My name is Jess and I’m a Graphic Designer. I live in a little town called Lower Darwen in Lancashire. I am the proud owner of one husband and two delightful children.

My loves:

• Tea with 2 sugars
• True Crime everything
• Seattle Grunge
• Gin & Bitter Lemon
• Anything historical (full on geek here)
• Pizza
• PC Gaming

My hates:

• Beetroot (just tastes like soil)
• Pretty much all sport
• People who drop litter (there’s just no need)
• Mathematical equations

How did you get started in design?

Back in the 90s, we used to go on ‘Work Experience’ in the final year of High School. My teachers saw how much I loved doing Art and Design and managed to nab me a two-week stint at a local screen-printing company. I really enjoyed the experience of working in a design studio and was delighted when the firm offered me an apprenticeship. I stayed with the company for a few years and studied one day a week at my local college to gain my qualifications.

Once I had developed my skills and grown in confidence, I made the decision to work for myself. I love being my own boss and I’ve had the opportunity to work with some fantastic clients from all around the world. I’ve also worked with more ‘challenging’ clients and this has taught me zen-like patience!

What does your typical day look like? 

Although I enjoy the benefits of working from my home office, I have a pretty rigid routine. I’m at my desk at 8am til 6pm every weekday. I start my days by replying to emails and dealing with paperwork and other boring (but necessary) stuff.

Then, the earphones go in, my Adobe software is booted and the fun begins!

I might be working on anything from a logo for a new start-up to creating catalogues for cool products and services. Some days I work on digital newsletters, web banners or adverts. My work is varied and there’s always novelty to stimulate my brain and get my creative juices flowing.

I try to make sure I take regular breaks but I’m often so engrossed in my work that I miss taking a lunch hour! At the end of the day, I like to cook for my family – a task I find very relaxing. In the evenings, I love to read or to play games on my kick-ass gaming laptop. I also love to walk in our beautiful countryside, and you can usually find me pestering friends and family to let me borrow their dogs!

What are your favourite projects to work on?

My favourite thing to do is to create a brand from scratch. This usually begins with a logo and brand style guidelines. Once that’s established, I will create matching stationery including business cards, letter heads, brochures, assets for websites and anything else the business might need.

Having creative control from the off allows me to nail the branding. Experience has taught me what works and what doesn’t. If I get the opportunity to lay the aesthetic foundations for a new business, I know that I can make it shine. I keep up to date with the latest design trends, but I also like to breathe individuality into my creative work – giving my clients something truly unique.

What’s your most memorable experience/funny story?

My full name is Jessica and even though all my emails are signed off with my full name, an alarming portion of my clients call me Jennifer. I have no idea why this happens, but it’s become an ongoing joke in our household. I stopped correcting people a long time ago. I have a client in the USA who I have worked with for around 3 years. He still calls me Jennifer in all our correspondence, and I’ve never had the heart to tell him that’s not my name! If we ever had to meet in person, I might just bite the bullet and get my name changed by deed poll!

What do you wish people knew about design? 

With anything design, I think it’s important to remember that often, less is more. Whatever the design is, overfilling it with too much text, images, logos, graphics and colours is easy to do and it can result in information overload. Graphic design is about good, clean communication and having too much going on doesn’t facilitate that. A good designer should be able to pick out the salient information and make it work in an impactful way.

Also, you can’t polish a turd! If you don’t have a good logo (that’s been designed with your target market in mind), professional photography, or high-quality written copy to boot – a designer can only do so much. I would say that getting these valuable assets in order before approaching a designer will give you the best chance of having designs that really work for you and help grow your business.

What inspires you? What do you do when inspiration doesn’t strike immediately?

Music for sure! I have a rich and varied Spotify Account with playlists for different ‘moods’ ranging from Classical through to Heavy Metal. Music really helps me to ‘feel’ what I want to communicate visually.

If I’m designing something for an organic brand, I will take inspiration directly from nature. I will look at leaves and flower petals and incorporate these elements into my designs. Colours too, are very important and subtle changes to certain colours can create dramatic differences.

If I’m working on something with a corporate feel, then I keep my design work modern and clean. That doesn’t mean it has to be boring, though. I love the art deco movement and regularly take inspiration from the geometrical patterns and monochromatic palettes of that period.

It’s a bit of a cliché, but inspiration is all around us if we choose to see it. I look at everything from my children’s story books to cans of food in the kitchen cupboard to spark that ‘ah-ha’ moment.

Can we go behind the scenes of your favourite project? 

I was approached by a young lady called Sophie a few years back who worked as a Case Manager for people with acquired brain injuries. Sophie wanted to set up her own Case Management company and had nothing other than a company name. Together we created a brand that really stands out in the industry: Beacon Case Management.

From that first logo through to company reports, presentations, social media graphics and everything in between, Beacon Case Management has become a well-established and trusted company in the Northwest region and beyond. Sophie now has her own team of case managers and they make a real difference to so many people’s lives. I feel genuinely honoured to have contributed (even in a small way) to such a worthwhile service that really helps people who need it.

How can people get in touch with you?

You can check out my website to get a feel for what I do.

If you’d like to talk to me about an upcoming project you have, then please don’t hesitate to get in touch. My email address is [email protected].